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T1 T183 (Part E: Document control Number)

I efiled T2s before but T1’s T183 is bit different it has (Part E - Document control) where it says it’s mandatory to generate this number for electronic records.

Appreciate your thoughts from experience, how do you choose this number, does taxcycle or profile auto generate it for you? can I choose any arbitrary number?

Thanks
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Both TaxCycle and Profile automatically generate the Document Control Number without any interaction from the tax preparer. It could be all software follows a similar format but In both TaxCycle and Profile the DCN is a 13 digit number and letter combination with the first 5 digits being your Efiler ID, then 2 digits representing the tax year that you are filing, followed by 6 seemingly random generated characters.

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The 6 “random” characters appear to be related to the client’s identity, as they remain the same from year to year for my continuing clients. The format changed from numeric in 2015 (my last year using VisualTax) to alphanumeric in 2016 (my first year using TaxCycle), but I don’t whether that was due to a CRA change or because the software publishers use different algorithms.

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I had never noticed the 6 digits never change from year to year once assigned to a client.
Thanks! I love learning new things. :+1:

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I filed all my returns with Profile and just compared the DCN numbers looking at 2018 and 2019 for several different clients. In Profile, the 6 digits are all random in both years, as is the code generated at e-file time. There is no similarity from one year to the next. So if you are noticing that the 6 digits are the same from one year to the next, then I would assume it must be a TaxCycle thing vs a CRA thing.

Thanks for your reply, I am using Profile also, I printed T183 with auto generated DCN number, next day when client came back with the signed copy I logged in to Profile, I had to update my efile settings (efile NO and Pasword) , but T183 showed different DCN number on it - I continued and efiled.

do you think the singed T183 DCN number should show be the same on the efiled one?

Do you normally attached/upload a photo of the signed T183 to Profile before you efile?

Hi, Ahmad …

CRA is quite particular about the T183. If they send you a request to send them copies of the T183 forms (ie: usually 25 unique forms of specific clients that they want to review), they will question you if your copies don’t match the information submitted to them during e-file. CRA may terminate your e-file license if there are a lot of unjustifiable errors.

At minimum, you should record a note on file to document the reason why the DCN number is different than what you submitted to remind you about it in case CRA asks for that specific T183 form - at least this way you can explain the mishap to CRA if they ask for an explanation. If you printed your documents to PDF before e-filing, it would be wise to have your client come in and sign a copy of the form with the correct DCN on it, as it would be better to have a correct version vs the incorrect version. The timestamp information on the document needs to be from a prior date to e-file.

I don’t understand your 2nd question: “Do you normally attached/upload a photo of the signed T183 to Profile before you efile?” If you are referring to Profile’s cloud storage site, I personally don’t like it and thus don’t use it. I have my own Canadian based, end-to-end encrypted cloud storage site that I use (Sync.com), which works quite well in keeping my documents backed up for remote storage. I typically print all my client files to PDF, and then use the PDF copies to print my client files. I don’t like the way Profile prints duplex files, so printing from PDF solves this problem for me (although it adds an extra step). It also guarantees that I also always have a pdf copy of information before it was e-filed to CRA. Hope this helps.

I didn’t renew my Profile license for 2020 tax year, and will be using TaxCycle moving forward.

Hi Gerry,

Thank you for alerting me, I think DCN got changed because I updated my efile information after printing the T183.

Actually on Dec 21 I sent T183 to client by email with XXX DCN number. On Dec 25th client signed and emailed me back the signed T183.

On same day Dec 25 I opened the same T1 file in Profile, to find that e-file info needs to be updated, so I re-entered my EFILE information again in Profile (efile no and password) and efiled for client to find T183 had different DCN.

Fortunately, I have a print of the correct (e-filed) T183 with the same e-filing date so I will email them to client to sign again.

The client is in Vancouver and I am in Toronto, could you please check the way he signed the attached photo (T183), is it sufficient, he printed the email, signed, scanned and emailed back to me.

Thank you Gerry

The signature looks good. It’s in the right spot (left hand column only, not the middle column).

I’ve only notice the DCN numbers change on me once or twice during my many years using e-file. I can’t remember the reasons for the DCN change back when I’ve experienced it, but I’ve always caught it on time and had the clients sign the right forms.

I also have clients who print, sign, rescan, and then send me the T183 form. I’ve also had clients sign using Adobe Reader or a MAC version of a signing program. However, the majority of my clients sign in person.

I try to get my clients to send me documents using secure channels like e-Courier.com or to upload it to a shared file I create for them on my cloud storage, Sync.com (both sites use end-to-end encryption, and both are Canadian companies so the files stay on Canadian soil), but I have clients who have a mental block to technology and insist on using unsecured email.

It 's good idea and I am aiming to go on task management software called “Karbon”, I think it offers secured client portal, and I am sure my clients will appreciate it.

On another topic, I hope you can guide me on the best way to calculate source deduction on bonus to be declared in 2020 for my client who is the only owner/manager in his “IT incorporated business”

I usually use CRA payroll calculator, but there, you can only estimate for salaries with several pay period frequencies " e.g monthly/bi-weekly" but no such option available for one time declared director’s fees at year end (annual bonus).

To avoid filing for him every month (T4 with CRA) we are issuing it as bonus once in the year - is there anything wrong with it

Do you recommend TaxCycle or Profile to estimate and e-file T4/T5 slips? or another software. thanks

So can i ask is this taxcycle board or is it profile if you have questions about profile you might want to ask over at profile. If you want a recommendation for t4 Taxcycle has done well since 2014 for me and my clients and Taxcycle has a task management built in, maybe take the program for a spin and check all aspects of it.

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I use TaxCycle for T4-T4A and T5 even in cases where my bookkeeping software would do as well.

When “estimating” tax on an annual payment, I go to PDOC and use a 12 month calculation.

Thank you Obhorst

Sorry for bringing Profile issue here, thanks for your task management opinion.

I only do a few payrolls yearly (mostly my own), so I always use the CRA Payroll Tables. I don’t like using the CRA payroll calculator because it has too many data fields to enter and always gives me different results compared to the Payroll Tables (I’m guessing the payroll tables are more accurate??). I treat a Bonus the same way I treat regular payroll using the same Payroll table (often the 12 month table).

As for tax slips (T4, T5’s, etc), because I don’t submit many each year, I simply enter them manually on CRA’s website using a WAC code and my business number. I don’t do enough of them to warrant using tax software such as TaxCycle.

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