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RRSP to RIFF

New client, husband passed away last November. Widow contacted me to review his previous’ years tax returns.
In 2013 her husband had an employer sponsored RRSP worth ~ $26000 which, by her info was “locked in”.
Because they were in financial difficulty, the RRSP issuer (Royal Bank) told them there was a way to access the funds by transferring the RRSP $s into a RIFF then simply withdraw from the RIFF.
The issuer initially transferred $12000 from RRSP into RIFF, then the remaining $s into the same RIFF a while later.
My clients withdrew the total RIFF value before year end 2013.
Royal Bank issued one T4RSP showing the initial $12000 in box 22 and also tax deducted (~$2400) in box 30. ( a direct transfer from RRSP to RIFF should not be subject to income tax deduction).
The same bank also issued a T4RIFF with $26000 in box 16 and tax deducted in box 28.
His 2013 return from his CRA account shows total plans’ income for $38,000 instead of $26,000.
When she contacted the bank about the amounts, they replied the proper paperwork was issued.
From what I understand with such transfers, the issuer normally provides a receipt showing the transfer (which by her own admission could have gone awol).
I’m just wondering if I adjust his T4RSP slip of $12000 as “transferred to RIFF” instead of simple “withdrawal”, if the CRA would require proof of such transfer (i.e receipt) or simply classify the income as misreported on his return.

Hi - I suggest you inquire and get some more information - see this link - might help you in finding the right solution for your client

https://www.taxtips.ca/rrsp/inkindwithdrawals.htm

thanks

1 Like

@taxwave

Five comments

1. There can only be one financial hardship withdrawal per year from a LIRA (Locked In RRSP) or from and LRIF (Locked in Retirement Income Fund).

2. LIRA (Locked In RRSP) withdrawal due to financial hardship can be done directly by completing the provincial financial hardship form. This results in a T4RSP slip being issued correctly.

Which provincial form you need to use depends upon the Province of Registry for the LIRA. Each province has different rules and different forms.

Search for the terms - LIRA financial hardship + THE NAME OF THE PROVINCE OF REGISTRATION.

This is the form for ALBERTA - https://www.alberta.ca/assets/documents/pensions-form-fsrp0023-print.pdf

Some provincial forms are hard to find and download. Just call the head office of the financial institute that send you the quarterly, semi-annual, or annual statements. It is best to contact the head office of that registrar/ manager to obtain accurate and complete information.

A good Financial Institution knows how to assist you with this. Branch banking knowledge is inconsistent. The individual’s knowledge and expertise at your local branch varies by bank, bank branch (mgr), and by individual.

Each LIRA, RRSP, LRIF, and RIF account has a registrar/ manager. In some instances, if your account is self directed, then you many need to go to your investment advisor/sales rep to find out whom to contact. It can be the mutual fund dealer if it is only one fund. Each of these have fantastic national call centres who can advise you accurately and assist you at every step.

3. To have a T4RSP slip created your client would have had a LIRA or RRSP withdrawal and not a transfer. I am not an expert in this area, however, it is my understanding that RIF and LRIF payments are reported on T4RIF slips.

4. If there was a withdrawal and if the withdrawal amount received does not match the withdrawal amount issued on the slip, then is it possible that the difference is the tax withheld at source.

If not, then obtain a copy of the statement containing all RRSP transactions for that year. This should verify the taxable withdrawal amount. From the slip you can see the taxes withheld at source. The amounts received should be the gross less the tax withheld. If this is not the case then help your client document this and send a request for an amended T4RSP to be issued and to have the old slip cancelled. You should ask for a contact within the head office. The branches are generally not very helpful in this case.

Another calculation would be to verify the cash value of the LIRA after the investments were liquidated. This value would be your starting point for your calculations.

5. To move money from a LIRA to an LRIF requires a TRANSFER FORM. Failure to use the right transfer methodology results in a withdrawal instead of a transfer. There are also limits and rules. This is highly technical and not my wheelhouse. However, the numbers still need to add up.

https://www.fsco.gov.on.ca/en/pensions/lockedin/lif/Pages/lifunlocking.aspx

http://www.moneysmartsblog.com/how-to-unlock-an-ontario-locked-in-retirement-account-lira-lrif/

2 Likes

Thanks for your info,

this would justify and explain the T4RSP for $12000 including tax deducted, taking into account provincial rules and limits.
Since the value of RRSP (LIRA) before any withdrawal was ~$26000, there would have been ~$14000 left in the same RRSP, which was then, from what I understand transferred into a RIFF. By my calculations this RIFF’s value would have been roughly $14000; this entire RIFF was withdrawn before year end.
The issued T4RIF displays $26000 (including tax) as withdrawn amount instead of $14000; this generates a total investment income of $38,000 when it should be ~$26000.

I will contact RBC’s head Office for more details.

Since my client already contacted her branch where all these transactions occured and was told the amounts reported were correct on both T4RSP & T4RIF issued, she is left wondering how can we have withdrawn $38000 when the RRSP’s value before any transactions was $26000?

1 Like

Here is your problem - you need to prove if this value was before or after the T4RSP withdrawal.
Get statements from the bank to track the transactions before raising a kafuffle based on what she thinks she knows.

@dklassencga
My client is presently in contact with RRSP issuer for the transactions’ paper trail. This is not the first time she requests this, however it seems that because this concerns 2013 tax year, there is some difficulty on their part to produce the said documents.
I have tried to contact them directly but my attempt was denied.
We are presently writing a letter of authorization for the bank to permit my business access to her deceased husband’s account.

@dklassencga

The legally authorized Executor or his or her legally authorized delegate may ask for slips, documentation, or sign documents.

In Alberta , the executor may be required to obtain a grant of probate to prove the validity of the will. A grant of probate is issued by the court and gives the executor authority to carry out the duties in the will. … If you do require probate, you must submit a Grant of Probate application to the court.Nov 22, 2017

[

Executor’s Duties: Top 10 Things To Know To … - Kahane Law Office


](https://kahanelaw.com/executors-duties-alberta/)

Once your client has been granted legal authority from their Provincial Authority, then she or he is authorized to request documents or to grant third party authorization to you re banks, CRA, etc.

Banks and financial institutions (FI) are required to make financial documents available for a MINIMUM of 6 full years from the date of issue.

Easily accessible documents vary by FI, by account, and by account type.

Documents that are not easily accessible must be requested from archives. This sometime involves assertive requests and escalations. Mostly this is provided through a single head office department or individual. They documents have varying formats - pdf, mainframe app extract, etc. They can be sent by email, fax, or mail depending upon their administrative policies.

I have successfully obtained up to 11 years of records by being assertive and by find the right individual who is enpowered and enabled to obtain these documents.

Generally, in the case of RRSP, there are three types of documents:-

1. RRSP accountant transactions
This is list of all contributions, withdrawals, DRIPS, and other account changes. This data can be download or sent in excel or pdf in the form of monthly, quarterly, or annual statements, or, extracted from the same. Archived or historical data can be extracted from mainframe or server based systems and compiled in chronological or reverse date order and printed to pdf. Occassionally this can be sent as a CSV or EXCEL extract. Chronological date order from account from start to end date is the easiest to understand.

Transfers in and out are also shown.

2. RRSP holdings valuation
This shows market value and account changes on a periodic basis.

3. RRSP slips.
Tax slips for RRSP contributions and withdrawals on a tax year basis.

Generally I ask for all three sets of documents.

Non-registered accounts

For investments outside of registered plans I also ask for the following information:-

  1. Interest received on paid on Margin Accounts

  2. Bond redemption statements

  3. Holdings value change, units change, new issue change, or other related changes due to

Changes, new issues, splits, reverse splits, conversion, redemptions, warrants, rights, etc

Dividend Reinvestment Investment Plan (DRIP’s) -

Return of Capital -

OTHER CONSIDERATIONS

  • Account holders names
  • Source of funds invested if multiple holders - jt account, individual account, etc

As a CPA, I am well aware of how it all works.
The issue I raised is that the widow may be remembering the sequence of events incorrectly and they need to be able to prove the bank issued slips wrongly before raising a stink about them.

His problem is timeline, not authorization.

@dklassencga

Debbie - I know that you are a CPA and expert tax preparer. I shared the information in my post for the benefit of the others in this subject thread who may not have your depth and breadth of knowledge. Your earlier posts were succinct and clear.

Finally! We received news from the banking institution. According to their records, the matching RRSP contribution receipt to offset the $12000 T4RSP was returned to institution as “undeliverable”. It was simply (from what I understand) returned to the “to do list” and never addressed further.
As such, it was never filed on 2013 client’s tax return.
We were informed a re-print is on the way.
Hopefully with the correct address …